Re: Arguments pleaseKF

[George Docken <GeorgeDocken@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Greyling,  You've offered the best perspective I've heard on this topic
yet.  Keep it up!   All the best, Geo.




                                                                       
             "Gentry,                                                  
             Greyling"                                                 
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             V.UTORONTO.CA>                                        
                                                                       
                                                                       
             09/29/05 02:36 PM                                         
                                                                       
                                                                       
             Please respond to                                         
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Well, I'm probably too new to have a valid opinion. But please know that I
LOVE this list and read every post with great interest. I print things off
and send them to my mom, and she is deeply grateful for the new information
and heartfelt support that comes out of this group.

I value open discourse above just about every other aspect of a living
democracy. From my point of view, this list is ALIVE AND KICKING! I LOVE
that you people are passionate and involved. I LOVE that you are, despite
your religious and political differences, still committed to spending
significant time and energy pursuing causes and cures. I LOVE reading
EVERYONE'S comments!

Am I naïve because I don't think the list is filled with "hatred" and
"blatantly political rantings"? Because a cure costs money, and because
research money has to come from the US government, PD is automatically
politicized to some extent. That may not be so elsewhere but the nature of
health research here makes it that way for Americans. We really can't
change that, and for some of us it is very frustrating. SO WHAT?!?! We
still go on. We still read every word on the topic and forward it along to
others in hope that they'll find it useful. We still offer empathy to
newcomers and compassion to long-time sufferers, and share sorrow over lost
comrades. We still unite in actions that will speed the search for a cure.

PD doesn't care if you're red, blue or green; rich, poor or in between. It
will come after you, steal your energy, your strength and, at times, your
will to go on living. In-fighting is the LAST thing we should be doing.
Time is precious to everyone -- and ten times more so to those with PD.

PLEASE. LET'S NOT TAKE THIS ALL SO PERSONALLY. WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO
EXPRESS OUR OPINIONS. IN FACT, IT'S HEALTHY TO DO SO. THIS IS STILL A SAFE
PLACE AND EXTREMEMLY VALUABLE RESOURCE FOR ALL OF US. WE CAN LEARN TO BE
LESS THIN-SKINNED AND ACCEPT SOME CRITICISM ALONG THE WAY. THIS IS A PUBLIC
FORUM SO LET'S ALL KEEP TALKING AND BE WILLING TO TAKE OUR LICKS WHEN FOLKS
DON'T AGREE WITH US. IT'S PERFECTLY NATURAL AND OK THAT WE ARE OPINIONATED.
IT'S NOT ONE BIT OK IF WE QUIT FIGHTING THIS DISEASE AND CHOOSE TO STOP
HELPING EACH OTHER.

~ Greyling

-----Original Message-----
From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
[mailto:PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rayilynlee
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:52 AM
To: PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Arguments pleaseKF

KF, I am still awaiting arguments and examples of how I have personally
verbally assaulted anyone on the List. either in personal emails or on the
List. If I have I certainly apologize, but would like to know what I said.
A far as I know Bush is not a list member, but the "most important person
in
the world"  (Daily Show) Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "KF Etzold" <etzold@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Arguments please, not whining


> Ray:
>
> I have followed the Bush bashing mail and had the same reaction. There
are
> no substantive arguments on their side just vague complaints about
> censorship. One could also count the PD related posts on their side and
> they are few. Rather than their complaining, I would like to see a well
> reasoned description of what Bush is doing. And I don't mean a rehash of
> what they are saying. Example: Somebody said we are fighting terrorists
in
> Iraq. That may be true today, but it certainly was not the premise on
> which
> this preemptive war was started. There were no terrorists there then.
> Saddam would not stand for the competition. Iraq has become a fertile
> ground for them. Indeed Iraq as a single country may well cease to exist.
>
> K. F.
>
>
>
>             rayilynlee
>             <rayilynlee@xxxxx
>             ET>                                                        To
>             Sent by:                  PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>             "Parkinson's                                               cc
>             Information
>             Exchange Network"                                     Subject
>             <PARKINSN@listser         Arguments please, not whining
>             v.utoronto.ca>
>
>
>             09/25/2005 02:56
>             PM
>
>
>             Please respond to
>               "Parkinson's
>                Information
>             Exchange Network"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Teresa,
>
> I would like an example of how I have displayed hatred for anyone on this
> list.  Let's hear some ARGUMENTS from you about why a cell is a person,
> why
> a preemptive war is OK.  I would love to debate these issues with anyone
> instead of your just claiming I am hateful.
>
> I have been through the fire in life and the classroom and am not afraid
> of
> you.  I am not going away.   Your problem with me is that you don't  seem
> to
> have any arguments.
>
> Just saw a great movie, "Warm Springs" about FDR (who as a Republican I
> used
> to oppose) and how he dealt with polio.  When I cried several times, my
> dog
> did too.   We never saw FDR's greatest battle, I highly recommend it.
> Ray
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Theresa Rehtom" <Ladyt231@xxxxxxx>
> To: <PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Bush bashing
>
>
>> There is no tolerance here for anyone who disagrees with Ray.  That is
>> what
>> appears to be the problem.  There are no values tolerated in  discussion
>> unless they align with Ray's.
>>
>> Yes there is an occasional posting allowed that disagrees but if the
>> poster
>> begins to make statements counter to Ray's beliefs they are soon
attacked
>> by
>> the  same group of Bush bashers under the guise of "freedom of speech"
> and
>> "we
>> are just searching for a cure"
>>
>> No Rick there is no tolerance displayed here only hatred.  The
> suggestion
>> of
>> filtering does not really work.  Why should a person join a  list hoping
>> for
>> Parkinsons information and support and then have to filter out  hatred
> and
>> blatantly political rantings.  Why should a person have to  turn on
>> filters to
>> feel welcome.
>>
>> Yes these rantings make her feel good.  I'm glad for that.  I am
unhappy
>> that she has driven so many people away from this list.  Fine  caring
>> people were
>> driven away and even Doctors who were supportive of all and  provided
>> balance
>> when medical advice was flowing.
>>
>> I guess we don't need the rejects doctors anyway.  There is rarely any
>> Parkinson's related discussions going on here.  There are only the bones
>> of  a once
>> useful list.  They only support a few bits of dying flesh now.   What a
>> shame.  It takes a whole body to be useful and function.  All  the
> organs.
>> All the
>> muscle.  Not just the bones.  Just like  Parkinson's limits the
> usefulness
>> of
>> the body by killing parts off the  brain.  This list has killed off and
>> rejected valuable  contributors...  The only thing left are the feeble
>> shakes,
>> weakness,  delusions, drooling, paranoia and the inability provide
> support
>> for
>> others.
>>
>> RIP one time useful list...
>>
>> Just my observations.  Please feel free to disagree.  I won't  hold it
>> against you or decree that your opinions are not  worthy posting.  They
>> are all
>> worthy.  It is just a shame what  has happened to this list.
>>
>> With Love and Respect for all
>>
>> Theresa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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